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@zachleat I feel like once upon a time we were focused on making web coding accessible to all and then we got increasingly complex JS frameworks that forced us into specializations and the emphasis on accessible coding switched to nocode drag-and-drop tools that abstracted away everything. @leaverou's Mavo is the only thing I can think of that tried to counteract this trend.

@zachleat @leaverou she does but my question is, why didn't what she created inspire similar efforts? i see energy in webassembly bringing compiled languages to the browser but no energy in advancing what we can do with html itself.

@selfagency @leaverou surely declarative shadow dom occupies the beginning of something there!

@zachleat @leaverou still very js heavy in implementation

@selfagency ah, hmm—I don’t see that

@selfagency @zachleat

Also, implementing high level declarative, reactive syntax that can work with whatever HTML & CSS you throw at it is HARD. A lot of Mavo's code is incredibly complex to handle all the edge cases, and still buggy (part of that has to do with the lack of resources in research).

@leaverou @zachleat that all makes sense. i guess i just figured there'd be more of an interest from educators, standards enthusiasts, and browser makers in making something like mavo part of a future HTML spec.

@selfagency @zachleat That was the vision behind that line of research. Having seen things from the standards side however, something like Mavo is too far out of course. If we ever get to something as high level as that, it will be through decades of lower level APIs building towards it gradually. Which is not a bad thing. Layered design can happen in both directions (high level first, then lower level, or the opposite).